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LunchBox62685
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LunchBox62685
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06/17/2003 1:22 am
What is the difference between coil pickups and single coil and other types of humbuckers or whatever? In fact, what are coil pickups?
# 1
Andrew Sa
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Andrew Sa
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06/20/2003 8:29 pm
If you are looking for a fat, warm or even Chrunchy or really heavy sound...then humbuckers are best.
Single coils tend to be more diverse, but less heavy and less effective with overdrive. The there are p-90s or soapbars, which have only one coil, but are kind of in between.

[FONT=Century Gothic]Hope is when we feel the pain that makes us try again[/FONT]
# 2
Polera
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Polera
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06/20/2003 8:55 pm
Neither is better then the other, it just what ever suits your taste. They have distinct sounds basically. There are however, better sounding pickups in thier respective categories.
WWSD? What would stevie do?
# 3
Incidents Happen
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Incidents Happen
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06/21/2003 2:57 am
There are 2 main options;

S S S = 5 way selector

H - H = 3 way selector

If you can find the right humbuckers, you can have coil taps to them, and its like having Humbuckers and single coils. It's a very neat concept, and i'm totally for it.

Just imagine the possibilities with

H-H-H

all with coil tapping ability...

:D:D:D
# 4
Lordathestrings
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Lordathestrings
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06/21/2003 4:07 am
Each of the pickups on a Strat is a single coil of wire wound on a plastic bobbin with six small magnets. The magnets are all positioned with the same pole at the top. This is the most basic type of pickup, and has been in existance since sometime in the 1930's.

Any time you get a wire moving in a magnetic field, or in this case, a magnetic field moving near a wire, there is a current induced in that wire. Making the magnetic field stronger, or using lotsa wires (like in a coil), increases this effect.

The pickup magnets create a field; the vibrating strings cause movement in the field; the fluctuating magnetic field induces current in the coil wires; the amplifier boosts that small signal to make it strong enough to drive the speakers... 'Still with me?

Now, adding another pickup makes things interesting. As the string vibrates, it moves in one direction, then comes back in the opposite direction. The current being induced in the coil does the same thing. If both pickups are identical, the induced current will be flowing in the same direction in both pickups, and they are in-phase. If any of the characteristics of one of the pickups is reversed, the current in that pickup coil will be opposite to the other one, and the pickups are out-of-phase.

If these out-of-phase pickups were getting exactly the same stimulus from the string, the signals they produced would be equal and opposite. They would cancel each other out, and there would be no signal left for the amplifier to work with.

This doesn't happen on a Strat because the pickups are sensing the vibration at different parts of the strings. The size of the vibration, and the harmonic frequency content at these different locations is just different enough that there is only partial cancellation. The result is that slightly 'hollow' sound you get with switch positions 2 and 4.

The three pickups in a stock Strat are usually indentical except that the magnets in the middle pickup are 'upside down'. This reverses the magnetic field around the middle pickup, reversing the phase of its signal relative to the other two pickups.

Companies that specialize in such things have developed expertise in 'tweaking' the pickup characteristics to produce different results. 'Hot' pickups usually have more turns of wire on their coils, and/or stronger magnets. Choice of materials gives a lot of options to work with, and everybody has their own personal idea of what the 'ultimate' pickup should be. Humbuckers use out-of-phase cancellation to get rid of the hum induced by the power-line magnetic fields produced by the transformers in big amplifiers. Since this requires having two coils in each pickup, we have the 'lotsa wire' condition which produces a high-output signal 'chunky' sound.

The idea behind the covers on some humbuckers is to keep grit from getting into the coils and causing damage. The old PAF Gibson pickups, (and a lot of new ones), used beeswax to fill any gaps in the windings and keep the wires from vibrating.

Plastic covers would serve this purpose, but while you're at it, why not use metal to improve the shielding? This is why the chrome and 'gold' covers are made of brass. You get good attenuation of EMI from outside sources, but since brass is non-magnetic, there is NO reduction of the magnetic coupling between the strings and the pickup.

If you prefer the look of the uncovered pickups, go with 'em. Some 'golden ears' types claim they mute the treble a bit. There is a slight increase in the capacitance of the pup with metal covers, so that may be true. The type of magnet material, the size and shape of the magnet(s), the size of the wire in the windings, the number of turns in the coil(s), and the way the coils are positioned relative to each other.... there's a whole LOT of factors that are important to the way a pickup works. Don't get sidetracked by cosmetics.

There are thick books available which are devoted to this subject. I'm going to knock off now, rather than write another one here. Hit the library. Do some reading. You'll be amazed at how much is going on inside the gizmos we take for granted.
Lordathestrings
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# 5
Incidents Happen
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06/21/2003 7:16 pm
VERY well put, Lord!


# 6
Incidents Happen
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Incidents Happen
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06/21/2003 7:27 pm
I was wondering what you know on the sonic properties of Gold (not 'gold plated', but 24K gold;

Gretsch has a new "White Falcon" model that uses 24K gold, and i thought it was interesting because, unlike 'gold plated' hardware, 24K gold doesn't corrode.

I figured that 24K gold would work pretty well on electronics, because of how malleable it is.

# 7
Lordathestrings
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Lordathestrings
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01/03/2004 7:22 am
I hope you'll forgive a six-month delay in repllying - I wasn't aware of your post until tonight.

That reference to "24 carat gold" is [u]BS[/u]. It should say something about 'plated with real gold'.

Gold, in it's pure (24 carat) form, is a very soft metal which would be totaly unsuitable for guitar hardware. Plating with real gold may be better from an aesthetic viewpoint, but don't believe for a minute that the hardware on any guitar is '24 carat gold'!
Lordathestrings
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# 8
the fool
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the fool
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01/05/2004 8:09 am
Incidents Happen

It's nice to have them hardware painted in gold eh Incidents Happen? Makes them pretty much more longer lasting. Now, i don't know much about whether differences in karat produce slight differences on the sound produced in the guitar. What I know is that the thickness of the plating seem to produce a very subtle difference in the tone. i own an epi guitar. epi guitars are notorious for cheap hardware. altough i replaced them with real gibsons recently, when i got some money from them xmas gigs, i had my covers gold plated with 10k gold. i don't know if other people have experienced this, but my guitar sounded to sound a lil' brighter than usual which is what i like.

Lordathestrings

Speaking of guitars, remember our lil talk about getting single coil sounds from a humbucker, i found out that it is also possible to have phase capabilities besides single coil sounds usings a varitone switch! My luthier showed me this mod that he did on a varitone switch and i'm shock that you can do out of phase sounds. I'm also very suprised about the single coil sounds- it's pretty good- you can get a strat and tele sounds! only problem is, it's more expensive- but atleast i only have to put one extra hole in the guitar plus it's more aesthetically appealing than switches don't you think?

"Lets see… well I play the guitar and when I'm not playing the guitar, I think about playing the guitar. My other favorite instrument, is the guitar and if I aspired to play any other instrument, it would be the guitar...

I can’t sing so I sing through my guitar. So when the sound guy says: “Your guitar is too loud!” I think: "Why does he never say that to the vocalist?"
# 9
the fool
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the fool
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01/05/2004 8:18 am
quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Lordathestrings

That reference to "24 carat gold" is BS. It should say something about 'plated with real gold'.

Gold, in it's pure (24 carat) form, is a very soft metal which would be totaly unsuitable for guitar hardware. Plating with real gold may be better from an aesthetic viewpoint, but don't believe for a minute that the hardware on any guitar is '24 carat gold'!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think it's possible to buy pickup covers that are plated with real gold anyways- atleast i don't know of any regular stores that sell them. I think you have to customize it yourself. I had mine gold plated at one of those companies that specializes in metal plating for big industries. It just so happens that a friend of mine has an uncle who has friends who work there.

As with 24k gold- never seen or heard one. I know of folks to have their watches, trophies- whatever gold plate it up to 14k but I've never heard of 24k gold. But I was thinking-if it's possible for Saddam's sons to have a gun made out of pure 24k gold- I don't see the reason why gold plating something with 24k gold can't be done. But since you're talking about like pure gold here, you have to be rich in order to pull it off- extremely rich.

Sorry, the fool, but those extra spaces at the end of all your messages are starting to drive me nuts! - eggman

[Edited by iamthe_eggman on 01-06-2004 at 08:55 AM]
"Lets see… well I play the guitar and when I'm not playing the guitar, I think about playing the guitar. My other favorite instrument, is the guitar and if I aspired to play any other instrument, it would be the guitar...

I can’t sing so I sing through my guitar. So when the sound guy says: “Your guitar is too loud!” I think: "Why does he never say that to the vocalist?"
# 10
the fool
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the fool
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01/05/2004 8:36 am
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by lunchbox6285

What is the difference between coil pickups and single coil and other types of humbuckers or whatever? In fact, what are coil pickups?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

coil is another term that they use for those magnets that make up the pickups (they are wrapped around 'in coils'). Therefore, when they say 'coil' pick up, it's virtually a general term for a pickup made of magnet.

now, pickups- in their most common forms, are either single coil or double coil. A single coil pickup is simply that what it refers too- and it is what you find in most telecasters and stratocasters (and if you know brian may, he uses trisonics in his red special, which is a variation of a single coil pickup) soundwise, single coil pickups are brighter but more susceptible to microphonic feedback. To solve this problem of microphonic feedback, humbuckers were invented. humbuckers are simply a double coil pickup- two single coils combined together. It's what you normally see in Gibsons and some strats that has the HSH configuration. As Gibson puts it, the main adventage of double coils is that it 'bucks' the hum- hence the term humbuckers. Soundwise, humbuckers are more warmer in tone. being bigger, they're also more powerful. the problem with humbuckers though is that they're no good to play clean chords with because they can sound muddy at times.

"Lets see… well I play the guitar and when I'm not playing the guitar, I think about playing the guitar. My other favorite instrument, is the guitar and if I aspired to play any other instrument, it would be the guitar...

I can’t sing so I sing through my guitar. So when the sound guy says: “Your guitar is too loud!” I think: "Why does he never say that to the vocalist?"
# 11
Lordathestrings
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Lordathestrings
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01/05/2004 10:12 pm
Originally posted by the fool
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by lunchbox6285

What is the difference between coil pickups and single coil and other types of humbuckers or whatever? In fact, what are coil pickups?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

coil is another term that they use for those magnets that make up the pickups (they are wrapped around 'in coils'). Therefore, when they say 'coil' pick up, it's virtually a general term for a pickup made of magnet.

now, pickups- in their most common forms, are either single coil or double coil. A single coil pickup is simply that what it refers too- and it is what you find in most telecasters and stratocasters (and if you know brian may, he uses trisonics in his red special, which is a variation of a single coil pickup) soundwise, single coil pickups are brighter but more susceptible to microphonic feedback. To solve this problem of microphonic feedback, humbuckers were invented. humbuckers are simply a double coil pickup- two single coils combined together. It's what you normally see in Gibsons and some strats that has the HSH configuration. As Gibson puts it, the main adventage of double coils is that it 'bucks' the hum- hence the term humbuckers. Soundwise, humbuckers are more warmer in tone. being bigger, they're also more powerful. the problem with humbuckers though is that they're no good to play clean chords with because they can sound muddy at times.
:eek: That's such a misguided pile of crap it would be funny except that someone might believe it, which would be tragic!

Please read my post on this thread.
Lordathestrings
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# 12
the fool
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the fool
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01/06/2004 5:49 am
!?
"Lets see… well I play the guitar and when I'm not playing the guitar, I think about playing the guitar. My other favorite instrument, is the guitar and if I aspired to play any other instrument, it would be the guitar...

I can’t sing so I sing through my guitar. So when the sound guy says: “Your guitar is too loud!” I think: "Why does he never say that to the vocalist?"
# 13
iamthe_eggman
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iamthe_eggman
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01/06/2004 2:56 pm
I think Lordathestrings meant to quote this. Seems to make much more sense to me, now.

Originally posted by the fool
Originally posted by Lordathestrings
That reference to "24 carat gold" is BS. It should say something about 'plated with real gold'.

Gold, in it's pure (24 carat) form, is a very soft metal which would be totaly unsuitable for guitar hardware. Plating with real gold may be better from an aesthetic viewpoint, but don't believe for a minute that the hardware on any guitar is '24 carat gold'!


I don't think it's possible to buy pickup covers that are plated with real gold anyways- atleast i don't know of any regular stores that sell them. I think you have to customize it yourself. I had mine gold plated at one of those companies that specializes in metal plating for big industries. It just so happens that a friend of mine has an uncle who has friends who work there.

As with 24k gold- never seen or heard one. I know of folks to have their watches, trophies- whatever gold plate it up to 14k but I've never heard of 24k gold. But I was thinking-if it's possible for Saddam's sons to have a gun made out of pure 24k gold- I don't see the reason why gold plating something with 24k gold can't be done. But since you're talking about like pure gold here, you have to be rich in order to pull it off- extremely rich.

... and that's all I have to say about that.

[U]ALL[/U] generalizations are [U]WRONG[/U]

[/sarcasm]
# 14
the fool
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the fool
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01/06/2004 5:42 pm
yeah, i read his link but I swear, you can gold plate a cover with real gold. Before I got into doing it, I was actually bothering a lot of blacksmiths, goldsmiths, jewellers, and gold platers- even librarians and luthiers just making sure i've done a lot of research, just as I am bothering everyone right now about the korg ax1500g and the whole stuff about getting the best single coil sound out from paf humbuckers and I found out that you can put real gold in your covers! I think lordathestrings is only aware of the normal way they do gold plating- which is just actually brass. I'm talking about something in the lines of jewellry gold plating and those gold platings that they do on those metal industries where they use real gold. There's many ways that you can do gold plating. One is adding brass to the process to make it more resistant to wear. trust me, this info is crap. it can be done!
"Lets see… well I play the guitar and when I'm not playing the guitar, I think about playing the guitar. My other favorite instrument, is the guitar and if I aspired to play any other instrument, it would be the guitar...

I can’t sing so I sing through my guitar. So when the sound guy says: “Your guitar is too loud!” I think: "Why does he never say that to the vocalist?"
# 15
the fool
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the fool
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01/06/2004 5:48 pm
i mean this info (my info, the one i'm providing)- is not crap. lol sorry for the typo
"Lets see… well I play the guitar and when I'm not playing the guitar, I think about playing the guitar. My other favorite instrument, is the guitar and if I aspired to play any other instrument, it would be the guitar...

I can’t sing so I sing through my guitar. So when the sound guy says: “Your guitar is too loud!” I think: "Why does he never say that to the vocalist?"
# 16
iamthe_eggman
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iamthe_eggman
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01/07/2004 1:03 am
Originally posted by the fool
yeah, i read his link but I swear, you can gold plate a cover with real gold. Before I got into doing it, I was actually bothering a lot of blacksmiths, goldsmiths, jewellers, and gold platers- even librarians and luthiers just making sure i've done a lot of research, just as I am bothering everyone right now about the korg ax1500g and the whole stuff about getting the best single coil sound out from paf humbuckers and I found out that you can put real gold in your covers! I think lordathestrings is only aware of the normal way they do gold plating- which is just actually brass. I'm talking about something in the lines of jewellry gold plating and those gold platings that they do on those metal industries where they use real gold. There's many ways that you can do gold plating. One is adding brass to the process to make it more resistant to wear. trust me, this info is crap. it can be done!


Do you post messages by e-mail? And, if so, are you accepting HTML in your e-mails? Just curious.

I think Lordathestrings means that there is no benefit soundwise to gold-plating covers, not that it is impossible or that it is not real gold plating.
... and that's all I have to say about that.

[U]ALL[/U] generalizations are [U]WRONG[/U]

[/sarcasm]
# 17
the fool
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the fool
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01/07/2004 6:30 am
yup, I answer through email and accept html although sometimes, I prefer to just go in the site and look over the forum and just answer manually from there because i get tired clicking all the email messages.

as for the gold plated cover issue, i don't intend to promote or say that there is a benefit soundwise to gold plating covers. I am no genious about the physics, the chemistry, and all the other sciences that goes with gold and its sonic characteristics so I cannot formulate an answer that has to do with the karat of the gold. I can only make up an answer (in the form of a guess) that maybe, the thickness of the gold- plating- (not the karat or how pure the gold is), can possibly have an effect on the sound of the guitar. I just said this because I noticed for a fact that my sound became a bit brighter that's all. Maybe there is a correlation (at best, and not causality) that is at work between here- but I wasn't promoting the idea as if it was a fact. I guess there's no harm done expressing an opinion or a guess as long as you don't state it as a fact right? I hope I didn't mislead anyone. If there is a fact that I'v stated in this post, its the fact that it is possible to gold plate a cover with real gold. I hope there are no misunderstandings.
"Lets see… well I play the guitar and when I'm not playing the guitar, I think about playing the guitar. My other favorite instrument, is the guitar and if I aspired to play any other instrument, it would be the guitar...

I can’t sing so I sing through my guitar. So when the sound guy says: “Your guitar is too loud!” I think: "Why does he never say that to the vocalist?"
# 18
concrete chaos
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concrete chaos
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01/16/2004 2:41 pm
so lordathestrings...or anyone else.
can u recommend any particular book titles, or authors which have this kinda detail about pickups and what not..
anything about physics of guitar. [most importantly unbiased]
i have next to nothing knowledge i pick up the debris as i go along...and since i bought my first electric and amp without any clue of sound etc.. id like to be prepaired for the next purchase whenever that maybe..and to know what mine is all about sine i have an SSH strat set up, i might wanna change the SS [hehe no pun intended] pickups. or the H but i wouldnt count on that.


'i dont have low self esteem, it's a mistake. I have low esteem for everyone else' - Daria
# 19
x0o_BurnOut_o0x
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05/31/2005 9:10 pm
Yeah, I know this thread is ancient but im gonna pull it out and dust it off. I also need some suggestions on a real real technical book on how to make some mods in your guitar aand its pick up wiring and stuff. Can anyone direct me?
We've been dancin' with Mr. Brownstone...
# 20

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