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Sclorch
Registered User
Joined: 08/10/04
Posts: 22
Sclorch
Registered User
Joined: 08/10/04
Posts: 22
03/02/2005 10:34 pm
Cant argue with logic:

From http://www.christianburner.com/v1/reality.html

Introduction
When Christians ask me to examine the possibility of their god existing, I do - just as I always have. As a child, when I was Christian, I examined other possibilities out of curiosity. Now I examine other possibilities for consistency. What if the Christian god is real? Loosely, I have arrived at these possibilities:

- god is limited
- god is evil
- god is perfect
- god is false

For the short attention spanned, I give a summary of these conclusions: god cannot be limited, or he would not be god by his own definition; god cannot be evil as evil is a product of limited perspective - again, meaning god is limited and thus cannot be god. If god does exist as a perfect and unlimited being, he would not fit the biblical profile in any way, and he wouldn't even be a "he" (as gender is a physical biological property for purposes of procreation). The only reasonable conclusion would be that the Christian god is false.

I understand for many the above summary is not good enough. If you are a Christian, your calculations are in error. I will now go into greater detail and discipline your feeble mind.

In the beginning...
If god has always existed, what did he do during the eternity before the creation accounted in the bible? If god were perfect and complete, why would he have a need or desire to create anything? For god to do anything during the eternity of nothingness would not be out of need but out of desire. Why would god possess the property of desire? First we must examine the definition of desire.
Noun: desire
1. The feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state
2. An inclination to want things

If god were complete, why would he experience an "unsatisfied state"? Why would god have an "inclination to want things"? Desire is a product of limitation, "unsatisified" implies limitation, and to want is to lack. For god to have desire would make him limited, and therefore not god by definition.

Possible Christian retort:
-"Desire does not make god limited". I just explained how it does - I suggest you reread it.
-"God can do anything, even have desire while remaining unlimited". I suppose god could do anything, but god cannot have desire by definition. Just as a chair cannot have four legs and three legs simultaneously, god cannot be unlimited and have desire simultaneously. Perhaps god is emulating the properties of desire, and for what reasons are unknown. But for the feeble mind, I will explore the possibility of god having desire.

Heaven
So a complete god who has existed for an eternity finally becomes bored and gets the desire to create. The first of his creations are angels, which are his helpers according to the bible. Why god would need any help is unclear, but who said the bible is logical? God makes the angels limited in perspective but expects them to perform justly as they would if they had unlimited perspective - already god is exercising demand and challenge. For reasons unclear, one-third of god's angels rebel against him. If a modern day corporation had one out of three employees leave for a competitor, this would be considered a horrific turnover rate. One could either interpret this as god making a mistake, or the angels miscalculated god's plans. Since god is perfect, he cannot make any mistakes. The angels were perfect but limited in perspective next to god, and therefore miscalculated god's plans - but by god's design only. Thus, god is responsible for this turnover. Why would god create unnecessary complications? I suppose boredom could be responsible, relieving god of responsibility - and the title of god.

Possible Christian retort:
-"God gave angels free will." Angels cannot exceed god's design, or they would be more powerful than god; hence god designed them to do as they did.
-"God did not need any help, he was just lonely." Lonely means one "lacks" companionship, and a complete god lacks nothing.
-"God was bored". If god were bored by definition he would have a "lack" of interest and experience mental weariness. Boredom is a result of limited perspective; uninterested because of frequent exposure or indulgence. If god possesses all faculties of consciousness simultaneously, knows all future and past, boredom would not be experienced, nor would desire - he would know what to expect, eventful or not. But for the mentally inferior, I will ignore such logic.

Earth
For some reason, according to the bible, god creates the earth, plants, and daytime before he creates the sun. I understand the writers of the bible did not have a full understanding of photosynthesis and such, but god did - who supposedly directed their writings. When the sun is finally created it is suggested that the sun exists for calendar purposes, not necessarily for day and light as it was already created (at this point, one must resist the temptation to think that the creation story is a primitive human perspective on reality, or maybe god created our beginnings in a chaotic and illogical fashion, perhaps to trick us into believing by means of faith only). Finally, after everything was finished, god rested. His error producing blueprints were set into motion.